For instance, dingoes, wolves and coyotes have developed over time as a result of natural selection operating on the information in the genes of the wolf/dog kind Without a way to increase information, natural selection will not work as a mechanism for evolution

I don't follow...

"The fool has said in his heart, 'There is no God'" (Psalm
14:1).
...."All of the wonders around us are accidental. No almighty
hand made a thousand-billion stars. They made themselves.
No power keeps them on their steady course. The earth spins
itself to keep the oceans from falling off toward the sun.
Infants teach themselves to cry when they are hungry or
hurt. A small flower invented itself so that we could
extract digitalis for sick hearts. The earth gave itself
day and night, tilted itself so that we get seasons.
Without the magnetic poles man would be unable to navigate
the trackless oceans of water and air, but they just grew
there.

"How about the sugar thermostat in the pancreas? It
maintains a level of sugar in the blood sufficient for
energy. Without it, all of us would fall into a coma and
die. Why does snow sit on mountaintops waiting for the warm
spring sun to melt it at just the right time for the young
crops in farms below to drink? A very lovely accident.

"A human heart will beat for 70 or 80 years without
faltering. How does it get sufficient rest between beats? A
kidney will filter poison from the blood, and leave good
things alone. How does it know one from the other? Who gave
the human tongue flexibility to form words, and a brain to
understand them, but denied it to all other animals? Who
showed a womb how to take the love of two persons and keep
splitting a tiny ovum until, in time, a baby would have the
proper number of fingers, eyes and ears and hair in the
right places, and come into the world when it is strong
enough to sustain life?"¹

There is no God?

Regarding agnostics and atheists, theirs is not so much an
intellectual problem, but a moral responsibility problem.
If they choose to believe in God, they know that they will
be morally responsible and accountable. It is much easier,
more convenient, and more self-centered to believe there is
no God. Indeed, "The fool has said in his heart, 'There is
no God'"
The is only one God all migthy, our LORD and Savior
and through JESUS His son we can all get to HIM.
Gyurza®

Science will answer that eventually... join them!

I still say that we all are in this Universe and whether it was on purpose or not it still is our God because it created us (by evolution or creation... it doesn't matter)

All science is doing is explaining some (very minuscule amount) facts like water is H2O or the human heart beating for 70 years without stopping.

Some people hide behind God for answers. Some people hide behind science for answers: Conclusion?

We are still hiding.


Not smart enough to understand the Bible or other works and to dumb to see there is more to the science of things.

What a pickle...

*sigh* well if there is a God I hope she gets it right the next time around...

maybe we're the 10 time around...

Dinosaurs took to long.

Anyone who does not believe in God should try reading stuff written by Thomas Aquinas. He was a philosopher that attempted to prove the existence to God. Maybe nobody can prove God's existence, but Thomas Aquinas made some really good arguments that leads one to think that there is a strong possibility that maybe there is a God. Summa Theologica is a good book to look into: http://www.ccel.org/a/aquinas/summa/home.html

nah anyone that does not believe in God needs to go to the beach and the observatory at night alone (just one time alone) hehe

bottom line is each one of us get's the chance to "decide" whether or not "we" want to know.
*yawn* me is tired me goes to grab tunes and wake up! (I'm thankful to God he gave me ears) hehe

#375 by bordfryr123 - 9/17/2003 7:26:28 PM #362 by Admin KarmaGirl - 9/17/2003 5:50:10 PM I always view the bible of a collection of sensationalized tales Obviously, hasn't read the Bible.

Actually, I have.  But not with interpretation by a church.  You can view it however you want.  I view it my way. 

If "God" is so great, why would he need to give us a book to tell us how to live?  Wouldn't we be born with such knowledge?  Why would we have to be taught about "God".  The spirituality of native American Indians is amazing, and they don't require a "book".  *But* they do have a lot of folklore that is handed down from generation to generation (If you put that folklore in a book, you would have the equivalent of the bible, but in Native American Indian terms.)

Well, Karmagirl, the fact that native american indians religion doesn't require a book could also be explained by the fact that native americans didn't write before the advent of the white man on the continent. American Indian communication was entirely oral (well maybe smoke signals too).

[Message Edited]

If you're looking at the highlights of human development, you have to look at the evolution of the organism, and then add the development of the interaction with its environment. Evolution of the organism will begin with the evolution of life, proceeding through the hominid, coming to the evolution of mankind: neanderthal, cro-magnon man. Now, interestingly, what you're looking at here are three strains: biological, anthropological (development of cities, cultures), and cultural (which is human expression). Now, what you've seen here is the evolution of populations, not so much the evolution of individuals. And in addition, if you look at the time-scale that's involved here: two billion years for life, six million years for the hominid, a hundred-thousand years for mankind as we know it, you're beginning to see the telescoping nature of the evolutionary paradigm. And then, when you get to agriculture, when you get to the scientific revolution and the industrial revolution, you're looking at ten thousand years, four hundred years, a hundred and fifty years. You're seeing a further telescoping of this evolutionary time. What that means is that as we go through the new evolution, it's going to telescope to the point that we should see it manifest itself within our lifetimes, within a generation. The new evolution stems from information, and it stems from two types of information: digital and analog. The digital is artificial intelligence; The analog results from molecular biology, the cloning of the organism, and you knit the two together with neurobiology. Before, under the old evolutionary paradigm, one would die and the other would grow and dominate. But, under the new paradigm, they would exist as a mutually supportive, non-competitive grouping independent from the external. Now what is interesting here is that evolution now becomes an individually-centered process eminating from the needs and desires of the individual, and not an external process, a passive process, where the individual is just at the whim of the collective. So, you produce a neo-human with a new individuality, a new consciousness. But, that's only the beginning of the evolutionary cycle because as the next cycle proceeds, the input is now this new intelligence. As intelligence pods on intelligence, as abilty pods on ability, the speed changes. Until what? Until you reach a crescendo. In a way, it could be imagined as an almost instantaneous fulfillment of human, human and neo-human, potential. It could be something totally different. It could be the amplification of the individual...the multiplication of individual existences, parallel existences, now with the individual no longer restricted by time and space. And the manifestations of this neo-human type evolution could be dramatically counter-intuitive; That's the interesting part. The old evolution is cold, it's sterile, it's efficient. And, it's manifestations are those social adaptations. We're talking about parasitism, dominance, morality, war, predation. These will be subject to de-emphasis. These will be subject to de-evolution. The new evolutionary paradigm will give us the human traits of truth, of loyalty, of justice, of freedom. These will be the manifestations of the new evolution, and that is what we would hope to see from this, that would be nice..

Matt Janx is back ?

#400 by paxx - 9/18/2003 8:32:11 AM Well, Karmagirl, the fact that native american indians religion doesn't require a book could also be explained by the fact that native americans didn't write before the advent of the white man on the continent. American Indian communication was entirely oral (well maybe smoke signals too).

Actually, the Cherokee had a language with written symbols long before white men came to America. Not exactly writing as we know it but, then again, neither is Chinese.

http://www.mnsu.edu/emuseum/archaeology/sites/northamerica/cahokia.html


" ---------------------
The city of Cahokia was inhabited from 1300 to 600 BP. At its peak from 900 to 800 BP, the city covered nearly six square miles and had a population of up to 20,000. Houses were arranged in rows and around open plazas. The main agricultural fields lay outside the city. Cahokia was a planned city with elaborate public buildings and perhaps elite residences at its core. The construction of these features required an organized cooperative labor force as well as organized leadership. Astronomical, mathematical and engineering knowledge also appear to be necessary skills in the planning and construction of the site.

The people of Cahokia had "widespread commerce; stratified social, political, and religious organization; specialized and refined crafts; and monumental architecture." (Cahokia Mounds State Historic Site)

Their world was believed to be of opposing forces: dark and light, which was on three levels. The Light Upper World was steady and predictable, the Dark Lower World was unstable and chaotic. They believed in an afterlife, which lead them to bury their honored dead with elaborate gifts. These burials are the ridgetop mounds of the city.

---------------------- "

Imagine that, white man pretty much is arrogant when it comes to those nasty savages....


[Message Edited]

oh, well, the gifts they buried with them? Bunches of young women and men like some of the other Advanced Civilizations in history on diffferent contents.