I wonder if treetog will like living in one of his skins...

heres a question.how could there be evidence of creation when they were just created on the spot? thats the point in my opinion.where as there is "evidence" of evolution there can be none of creation since god would have JUST created them.

If God made every species on earth, why didn't he make them all reproduce the same way?

Simple, he likes variety.
that's why you find different type of flowers, variations in the big cats: Lions, Tigers, Jaguars, and your common house cat. Same type, just a little variation.

I don't know.
Say you're a programmer and make a bunch of different applications. They may all be very different and accomplish different things, but I'm pretty sure that the "save as" command for all of these would be the same. Why make them different if one way works?

OK, so here's the ultimate creation question everyone's been avoiding:

If God created us etc, who created God?

Which came first- the chicken or the egg?

Maybe we evolved from sea slugs: http://www.napa.ufl.edu/2003news/memoryslug.htm

Among the many Christians who accept evolution is….Pope John Paul II. Yep. The Big Guy himself. On October 7, 1996, in an address to the Pontifical Academy of Sciences in Rome, he declared [the Church's] acceptance of evolution as a scientific fact, and noted that there is no war between religion and science: "Consideration of the method used in diverse orders of knowledge allows for the concordance of two points of view which seem irreconcilable. The science of observation describes with ever greater precision the multiple manifestations of life…while theology extracts the final meaning according to the Creator’s designs."

Yah, well he's a nutcase anyway.

Two recent events come to mind:

1- The legality of civil homosexual marriage (not religious marriage of course) was voted a couple of months ago, but just before the vote, JP2 warned the deputees (equiv to the US congressmen) that voting in favor of homosexual weddings could close them the doors of heaven.  WTF? It's a CIVIL marriage is was about. I though the church didn't even recognise civil marriages as valid, so what does he care?

2- A recent propaganda against the use of condoms.  The Vatican even claims that condoms do nothing to protect against AIDS and other sexually transmitted diseases.

Did I say that I hated religions? Retards!
Sure, believe in God, I'm ok with that. But organised religions should be illegal!

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Heres one I came across...

Without religion, where is your basis for morality?

It is based in your humanity...

Let me expand on this....

I can only speak for myself because I only know my own reality and how I face it day to day.

My commandments revolve around the premise that I should do as ittle harm as possible for the greater good,. Whom would fall into the grouping of the greater good you may ask, well it is expansive but layered.

My wife and children come first.
Others come next.
Animals and earth next.
then followed up by my person.

The order is subjective in the fact that it is applied on a mean base line consisting of intent, results and acceptable loss or gain.

For instance, I have walked in front of traffic to pick up two different dogs at two different times, one of which chewed my arm up pretty good. The first time is when that happened in fact. It did not stop me from doing the same thing the next time around.

I put my life on the line for someone elses animals.

I stop and push cars out of traffic when they are broken down instead of layingon the horn which is as stupid and ignorant as you can get in my opinion, the horn blowing, why make someones already messed up day even more so or at least attempt to to justify you anger at their expence?

I'll give of myself to anyone in need who might ask, or I see is in need but would not ask and yet I would break someone and not think twice about it if they decided to take from me or mine or anyone else.

I think that murder is the worst thing in life a person could do and yet I think that someone who does in fact murder, rape or molest a child, woman or another has removed them self from the human race and has decided to become an animal of prey.

I also think that Bush lied his ass off and his people still keep lying their asses off. Yet I also feel that something shoulsd have been done back when Ray Gun was telling daddy Bush to get Ashcroft to sell them Weapons of Mass destruction was and is criminal and something that people in the USA really need to wake up and look at.

Did he have WMD's yes, we know because we kept the freaking paper trail all the way to our coffers.

anyway...

like I said, personally I feel that I do not need the crutch (my opinion only applied to myself) of God or religion to know what is right or wrong....

By the way...

My Brother was an alter boy and my mother taught Sunday school...
I just spent time on my knees in front of the priest and chewing stale crackers and drinking darkred un-sugared koolaide....


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Facinating read IP, especially the last paragraph.

However, I'm not saying you can't be moral without God; atheists can be better people than some "Christians." It's just that without God, morals are subjective; they're no more important than the type of music you listen to. Without God, we can't criticize others for being immoral; we can't criticize Hitler, Saddam Hussein, or Jack the Ripper. Without God, life is as meaningless as the action figures children play with. Without God, we're meaningless molecules that just so happened to come together and be intelligent.

Among the many Christians who accept evolution is….Pope John Paul II.

Cathlics and Christains are different religions. PJP2 is a cathlic.

1- The legality of civil homosexual marriage (not religious marriage of course) was voted a couple of months ago, but just before the vote, JP2 warned the deputees (equiv to the US congressmen) that voting in favor of homosexual weddings could close them the doors of heaven. WTF? It's a CIVIL marriage is was about. I though the church didn't even recognise civil marriages as valid, so what does he care?

Quite simple IP: Marriage is defined AS A UNION BETWEEN A MAN AND A WOMAN, and in God's eyes it is written that homosexuality is wrong.

Kona,

Catholics ARE christians, by definition.

You're probably thinking of the difference between Protestantism and Catholicism, which are different sects of christianity (but both still christian, by all definitions of the word).

EventHorizon,

Even *with* God, morals are subjective. You may have the argument that you can point to a definitive source for your moral structure, but the interpretation of what that structure means is still supremely subjective. Different people in the same religion (let alone different people in different religions), can and do interpret their moral imperatives from God in a very subjective, and often differing manner.

Even the observance of commandments are interpreted subjectively, in accordance with what the interpreter wants it to mean. For example, 'Thou shalt not kill' is routinely interpreted to allow killing criminals, enemies, and people not of one's faith. If you accept it as a moral imperative, then it means exactly what it says, and one cannot kill *at all*, for any reason. The mere existence of a moral structure does not remove the existence of subjectivity.

It is possible to have a well defined moral structure that does not require God. One example is the form of projected self interest, in that as we do not wish to be killed, or robbed, etc., and given that we can recognize that others have the same kind of desire in that respect, we can create a moral framework based on recognition of the integrity of ourselves and others.

In such a structure, it is quite possible (and even defensible) to despise and crimilize the acts of those you mention.
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