Donations

Published on July 15, 2003 By grayhaze In WinCustomize Talk

Upon release of my metalX2 and dinksDX skins, I decided to try a little experiment to see just how willing the general user would be to voluntarily pay a small amount of money in appreciation of the work that went into the skin, and to support future development.

Despite clocking up over 25,000 downloads so far on those skins, I haven't received a single donation. I can't say I'm too surprised because I never believed for one moment that I'd make any real money out of it, but I never for one moment thought that I wouldn't make a single penny!

I'm not telling you this because I'm upset about the lack of donations, or to make anyone feel guilty. I'm telling fellow skinners in case they consider doing a similar thing with their own skins in the future. It's just not worth the effort to set it up.

I find it remarkable that when a discussion about commercial skins comes up you get a multitude of comments about how someone just bought the skin to show their appreciation of the artist's work, even if they didn't particularly like the skin. You also get the people bemoaning the fact that someone dares to request money before they are able to use a skin. Surely the concept of voluntary donations should satisfy both of those crowds, and should at least meet with a limited amount of success?

I'm therefore considering never releasing a free skin again. I may get a lot of people complaining about having to pay for a skin, but at the same time I can at least be relatively confident that I'll get one or two buyers at the same time.

Although I enjoy skinning, I'm perfectly willing to be honest and admit that a lot of what I do is for public recognition, and in the hopes that it may lead on to bigger and better things. As an unemployed graphic designer (something which is becoming increasingly common in this country), I would like to think that someone out there will someday download one of my skins and think it's good enough to offer me some work.

I do create skins for myself, but in all honesty if I only did it for myself I wouldn't spend the amount of time I do on an individual skin. I wouldn't mind the occasional glitch here and there, just so long as it serves its purpose and gives me pleasure. I spend the extra time on my skins for both the reasons mentioned above, and because I want to give the users of my skins the best they could possibly hope for. I listen to comments and try to mold the skin into something the users want, even if that conflicts with my own tastes or needs.

Anyway, after the next update to dinksDX and metalX2, you'll be unlikely to see much in the way of free skins coming from my computer. I'd be interested to know if there are others out there who feel the way I do.

Comments (Page 1)

grayhaze

on Jul 15, 2003

I would just like to add a thank you to all those people who give me compliments and contructive criticism on my skins. I don't want you to think for one minute that I don't appreciate the feedback I get. As I've said before, there's a big reward in the knowledge that there are people out there using my skins and enjoying them. Thank you.

White_Moth

on Jul 15, 2003

I think you do excellent work Journeyman Grayhaze.
I can also understand that which you are saying, although I find it difficult to agree.
Though I have yet to create a skin, I am also in the same "boat" as yourself.
I farm for a living.
I can honestly say since 1989, I have yet to make a profit.
Crop prices continually go down as everything else goes up, including groceries for my own table.
Yet, I continue farming to put food on others table without thanks, or donations.
Why do I do this?
Because I believe that somewhere along the line there is a reward to be received, and since I have the where-with-all (talent) to continue doing what I do best, I must.
For me to stop farming, would be to deny those who need, and without knowing me, do appreciate my efforts and hard work.
I am simply a small cog in a huge machine doing my part the best I can and somehow "earning" my living.
Somewhere, I know someone is watching, and when the day comes that I can no longer do my part for whatever reason, I know they will be there to help me regain what had been denied me all along.
To just up and quit and deny sharing with those who count on me whether for life or profit, would ensure my own speedy demise and everything I worked hard for, and in the end, my very life would amount to nothing.
Such are the ways of Life which are larger than we know.

paxx

on Jul 15, 2003

White_Moth, for your analogy with farming to work, you'd have to be without a job at all, while farming for free. You'd have to give all your farming products away for free, while hoping some people kike it enough to encourage you and give you a voluntary donation. After a while you might tell yourself, well people just don't make donations when it's optional, in the future I'll have to change money for my product if I want to eat.

DaWebMassa

on Jul 15, 2003

Did you really expect money gray? All of those downloads and how many actually took the trouble to leave a comment? If that's too much trouble for most, why would they send money? Take a look at the total # of downloads you have on all of your skins, then the total # of comments and figure out the percentage.

Unless you specifically release a skin as a suite for purchase, I tend to think you are hoping for too much.

Sorry for the bluntness but this is the way it is.

grayhaze

on Jul 15, 2003

So by your reasoning DaWebMassa, the more I inconvenience the users of my skin, the more likely they are to offer money? If I make them go through the whole process of purchasing the skin through a commercial vendor, I'm likely to get more people doing so than if I give a simple PayPal link?

I understand what you're saying about the ratio of comments to downloads, but the fact remains that whenever a thread pops up about buying skins there are a large number of people who claim to do so to help out the author and support their work. The truth seems to be that people will only pay for a skin if they are forced to do so, regardless of how much they value that skin or the work that went into it.

Obviously there are always going to be far fewer comments than downloads for a particular skin, but the optimist in me believes that a large percentage of the ones who don't comment do enjoy the skin and use it. People are far more likely to comment if they don't like something than if they do. That's just human nature.

grayhaze

on Jul 15, 2003

I just want to repeat that I never expected to receive a lot of money. I expected maybe 1% or lower to find the time to donate, but I never expected 0%.

There was an experiment conducted recently where an advertisment was placed in a national newspaper asking people to send £10, for which they would receive absolutely nothing. You would think that nobody would be so stupid as to pay for nothing, but they were shocked by the results. The actual amount of money they received over a one week period was never disclosed, but they said that it was considerable.

I think it says something very interesting about skins and their users.

DaWebMassa

on Jul 15, 2003

Gray... Take a shareware program that has no expiration vs. a commercial program that you are forced to buy. I've seen MANY shareware programs that far exceeded the quality of the commercial one. I don't need to elaborate any further as I think you can figure the rest on your own.

I've not experienced your take on comments. I would have to say 95% of mine are positive. My point is, if they are enjoying the skin and don't take what is litterally a few minutes to mention it to you and costs them nothing, why would they take the same amount of time to send you money?

White_Moth

on Jul 15, 2003

White_Moth, for your analogy with farming to work, you'd have to be without a job at all, while farming for free. You'd have to give all your farming products away for free,

During these past few years Paxx, I have yet to break even, so in essence, I am giving away my product. The state of farming in the United States is becoming a losing proposition, yet many as myself continue.
And why do we do it?
Because no one else will, but would rather depend on other countries to grow their food while the developers gobble up the finest farmland around, not for farming, but for short term riches from which they can afford to buy imported food.
But one day, when we become dependant upon those countries for our food as we do our oil, well, needless to say, we will be in a world of hurt.
Because unlike oil which there are other short term alternatives, food is so immediately necessary, when once realized is no longer available, or prohibitively expensive, it will be too late.
Sure, I would like to earn more money, to be able to afford something above the necessities of life, but I am a farmer, who only knows how to grow food.

grayhaze

on Jul 15, 2003

While I understand your situation White_Moth, and sympathize, I really don't see how it has any relevance to this topic. As paxx already said, for your comparison to work you would have to be unemployed and farming for a hobby which you hoped to gain a little money from, if only to support that hobby. You may not have broken even in your business, but you are still selling your product.

As an ex-designer, I am all too aware of the cost of man-hours in work very close to that of skinning. One skin takes me approximately one to one and a half months, working far more hours than I would in a full-time job and including weekends. If I were to spend that amount of money on an individual freelance design job, the price tag would be quite obscene.

The whole donation idea was that, even if it didn't support my hobby, it would contribute a little toward the time and resources I use in the process. As it currently stands, I only continue to skin because I get some pleasure from the response to my work and the satisfaction of completing something so huge. When it gets to the point that I'm spending more time skinning than I am doing anything else, the lack of compensation from the users starts to bite a little.

MikeB314

on Jul 15, 2003

Ok, as someone who does make a little money skinning, here's my take on it. People will support you financially for two reasons. They will do it as a show of appreciation, and they will do it to get something in return. While people may have good intentions of making a donation, they may never actually get around to it because there is nothing compelling them to do so. They may also never even make it to your web site to discover that there is a way to donate. So, what Hippy and I do, following Pixtudio's lead, is release free skins, promoting the hell out of Skinplant.com, to get people to come visit. When they get there, they see lots of free stuff, and a suite of skins only available for purchase. The ones who want to support us, now have a compelling reason to do so. They will get an exclusive premium suite of skins in return.

It's kind of like buying Girl Scout cookies. You get to feel like you've contributed something, and you also get the cookies. If the cookies were free sitting next to a donation box, I'm sure the Girl Scout's would see a much smaller return on their investment.

The whole selling skins to the public thing is relatively new, so there are no doubt other approaches that have yet to be tested, but this is what seems to work for me. My advice would be to put together something available only to your supporters. Then release free skins with your web address on them (tactfully) so that people will remember your site, visit it, and have the opportunity to support you while getting a little something in return.

grayhaze

on Jul 15, 2003

If I were to spend that amount of money on an individual freelance design job, the price tag would be quite obscene.

Obviously I meant 'spend that amount of time'...

DaWebMassa

on Jul 15, 2003

While people may have good intentions of making a donation, they may never actually get around to it because there is nothing compelling them to do so.

As I said above... shareware vs. commercialware.

White_Moth

on Jul 15, 2003

My point is a simple one:

Keep doing what you do best, and the best will come back to you when you need it most.

Keila

on Jul 15, 2003

I would like to think that someone out there will someday download one of my skins and think it's good enough to offer me some work.

This could very well happen, never give up on a dream.

Zodiaq~

on Jul 15, 2003

grayhaze...I agree with everything you said in your first post. Your skins come fully loaded and it's obvious you have spent more hours on them then most would.
I'm surprised at the lack of not even one donation

Can't blame you...This skinning stuff takes a huge amount of time with no return:(

I also think DaWebMassa has a point too...shareware vs. commercialware. I still use the unregistered version of SkinStudio...If it had been a 30 day evaluation and then quit on me...It would have allready been purchased

Welcome Guest! Please take the time to register with us.
There are many great features available to you once you register, including:

Richer content, access to many features that are disabled for guests like commenting on the forums.
Access to a great community, with a massive database of many, many areas of interest.
Access to contests & subscription offers like exclusive emails.
It's simple, and FREE!