Yeah, Auguste...what Dor said!

"That's exactly my point r3fr. Question an evolutionist's views and they'll more than likely show you a little proof and tell you it's the best answer we've yet to find. Question a creationist's views and they'll regurgitate the Bible and tell you you're wrong."

I've not read this entire topic (31 pages!), so could you tell me of the proof you speak of?

heh #752 thru #755 is pleanty proof of blah blah blah BS!

China !

your bad, very good at it I'll add

yeah...

I've not read this entire topic (31 pages!), so could you tell me of the proof you speak of?

You want the sum total of human knowledge condensed to... what... 1 page, 2 maybe?

I'm sure you live near a library? They got books other than the bible there. Check it out.

Theres proof that Jesus lived and walked the earth. Read the book 'Josephus'. Proof of Jesus' existence. Human knowledge isn't always right, like the 'fact' I gave of the earth being flat. Evolution doesn't explain why humans are far superior to the animals, even our 'relatives' the apes. Apes, put simply, are stupid. They're nothing compared to humans. The smartest animal, is the dolphin (correct me if i'm wrong) and they're still nothing compared to us. Look at what we've accomplished... some good, some bad, but still awe-inspiring. Our bodies are awe-inspiring. Look at the mutitudes of other animals and plants and even the human personalities. Design requires a designer. Why is it dogs can't breed with cats? Why can't horses breed with sheep? Why can't humans breed with apes? (These aren't ment to be sick.) Evolutionists and Creationists have 1 thing in common and that is they're searching for how the earth began. Evolutionists continue to change their answers. Creationists have had the same answer since the beginning of man. Some people sincerely reject the concept of a Creator because they feel, as it has been said, that ‘seeing is believing.’ If something cannot be seen or measured in some way, then they may feel that it does not exist. True, in daily life they acknowledge the existence of many things that cannot be seen, such as electricity, magnetism, radio or television waves and gravity. Yet, this does not alter their view, because all these things can still be measured or sensed by some other physical means. But there is no physical way to see or measure a Creator, or God. However, there is sound reason to believe that an unseen Creator does exist because we can observe the evidence, the physical results of his handiwork. We see it in the technical perfection and intricacy of atomic structure, in the magnificently organized universe, in the unique planet Earth, in the amazing designs of living things and in man’s awesome brain. These are effects that must have an adequate cause to account for their existence. Even materialists accept this law of cause and effect in all other matters. Why not also regarding the physical universe itself?

On this point, the Bible’s simple argument puts it best: “[The Creator’s] invisible attributes, that is to say his everlasting power and deity, have been visible, ever since the world began, to the eye of reason, in the things he has made.” (Romans 1:20, The New English Bible) In other words, the Bible reasons from effect to cause. The visible creation, the awesome “things he has made,” are an evident effect that must have an intelligent cause. That invisible cause is God. Too, as the Maker of all the universe, the Creator no doubt possesses power so enormous that humans of flesh and blood should not expect to see God and survive. As the Bible comments: “No man may see [God] and yet live.”—Exodus 33:20.

Evolution is only a theory. Believing in evolution, then, is an act of faith

Whatever. Yawn Time to lock this thread, it's getting boring now. Same old stuff over and over and over....

Oh yeah? Well I knows what I weren't never no munky. That there Fuzzy Logic feller shore makes a feller wunder thow...


( ... bread and circuses... [aussie] ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED?!??!?! [/aussie] ... )





[Message Edited]
[Message Edited]

Technically its Friday so I can post again.

Evolution is only a theory. Believing in evolution, then, is an act of faith

So would it be true that creation is a theory?

I believe in a Higher Power but the bottom line still comes down to that either way you want to go it is a belief. A sum of works based on someone elses work.

I have never read the Bible in its original form, has anyone here?

I have never been able to varify all the conclusions of science over the past (fill the blank) years, has anyone here?

An atheist response to my comment:
Religious freak

An religious response to my comment:
Whoa the troubled soul you have.

-----------------------

Extreme answers? Yes, because I think most people believe whilst they also think evolution is somewhat true (even though some missing links have not been found)

I think bakerstreet has a point and I think he best made it on pages 29 - 31. I strongly believe that if your super sure in your faith, then you must has stopped trying to get closer to enlightenment.



By the way, 1914 is the beginning of what according to the Bible? Not do dismiss that but I really thought I heard something similar about:

The year 2000
WWII
The Civil War
The Year 1000
The Black Death
HIV/AIDS

And other stuff. No offense but it would seem that then end is near depends on who your asking.


joetheblow goes off to post on other threads

FREE, FREE!!!!

Regardless of how stereotyped or offensive you find my comments BakerStreet, they are based entirely on my experience with both groups of people (I almost said 'sides' there, but apparently this thread has been 32 pages of folks agreeing with each other ). I have large numbers of friends who both believe and do not believe in a God, and they in turn have large numbers of similar friends to whom I have been introduced.

In my experience, the one group of people, let's call them the 'scientists', are open to discussion and debate on their beliefs and are willing to listen to and consider alternative points of view. The other group of people, who we'll call the 'religious', are completely 100% closed off to any form of debate about the validity of their beliefs, in that if you question them they'll look at you like you're mad and regurgitate some story out of the Bible which conclusively 'proves' that there are no other possibilities.

These observations aren't meant to attack you personally, or your religion, but are merely things that puzzle me and perhaps infuriate me a little.

I know the debates will rage on long into the future, and it's highly unlikely that the world will ever come to a single conclusion about where we came from or where we're going, but I still hold out hope that one day I'll be able to sit down with a Christian and hear something from them that will allow me to understand their way of thinking without them giving the impression that they've been brainwashed. In truth, I'd like to believe in God, but the believers are just preventing me from being able to take that step.

"...I still hold out hope that one day I'll be able to sit down with a Christian and hear something from them that will allow me to understand their way of thinking without them giving the impression that they've been brainwashed."

I would love to know what I or Aleatoric do that resembles someone brainwashed, or any of the other people on this string that call themselves Christian and are open to Evolution as a *method* of Creation. Thinking back I can count the biblical literalists on one hand.

I don't understand why 'Christian' has to mean Fundamentalist. It annoys me beyond belief to have that label imposed on me. I am acquainted with many, many religious people, but I only knew people like you describe when I lived in very, very rural areas. Even then they were in the minority.

I have said this over and over, though, so it doesn't matter. God seems to be in question here, not Creationism, so I'll bow to the sublimated topic.

greyhaze: to be fair...

I'll add that you do split the groups into open-minded 'scientists' and close-minded 'religious', and that is palatable to me. I do appreciate the effort, but then you immediately revert to using the all-encompassing 'Christian' label. Do you mean protestant or Catholic? If it means protestant, do you mean episcopal, mormon, baptist, etc. ? Does that mean you *don't* have a problem with Muslims that reject evolution, or Hindi?

What I see when I read your posts is open-eyed animosity towards a particular flavor of a particular religion, othe Fundamentalist strain of all religions. They are the minority, you know? There are billions of people in the world who accept the possibility of a Supreme Being. Do you really imagine that they are all the way you describe the 'religious'?

You really need never ponder Bible-Belt style Fundamentalism when making a decision whether to believe in God or not. If you allow such people to define 'religion', then you are doing yourself an injustice.