The Jehovah's Witness hierarchy has the tools in place to punish, shun and isolate those that threaten their power, openly question doctrine, and cause 'dissent'. They are in charge of the lives of their members.

That from a non-JW...
This from a JW: No, my life is controlled by me. I make my own decisions. I choose to serve God according to how the rest of the JWs do. The site you posted tells lies. The only site that truely tells of our activities is our own.

From their own site: Link and other examples of the JW isolation practice and 'spin':

In my religion, when people commit a serious sin they are disciplined. They may be talked to by the elders and disfellowshipped. Why we're told not to talk to the disfellowshipped person is because they might get us to think the way they are. A Scripture some of you may know is 1 Corithians 15:33 which says: "Do not be mislead. Bad associations spoil useful habits." How true it is.

A black and white example: As a Jehovah's Witness, if the only means of saving the life of your child is a blood transfusion you must refuse. You are required to watch your child die. R3fr will call it a "personal choice", but not when you consider the methods above. Participation in the church *requires* a decision that is psychologically difficult after years of such psychological programming. As your secular and religious authority, they can shun you from family and friends, and even punish you in the afterlife. This is not a "personal choice".

No, it is a personal choice, but one of the decisions we strongly recommend you take. It is a difficult decision, but we know we will see them again in paradise, if they do die. As for the advanceds in technology, we no longer have to make that choice.
No programming, you just got that from a website.
Punishing in the afterlife? I guess you mean in the paradise earth? In the paradise earth, everyone will be perfect so there will be no need for punishment. Thats not even a teaching of ours, the punishing in afterlife. Also, and it does make a difference, but we don't have a 'church,' but a Kingdom Hall.

In my opinion the Jehovah's Witnesses are solidly a cult.

With the 'facts' you've read, yes, we could be considered a cult, but if you get the FACTS, then you're conclusion may be very different. To get the facts, go to the OFFICIAL website www.watchtower.org and not some other website that tells lies.

oh no I said the word penis I'm going to hell! hehe Doreen

Look at yourselves.

why?

What do you see that I do not?

Then I would like to ask, why should I care?

You have your religious beliefs and I will not single you out and vilify you for them, don't presume to do that to me for not accepting yours as my own truths and reality.

Thats the point, stop preaching.

[Message Edited]

Look at yourselves.
992 by Citizen r3fr - 11/4/2003 4:36:22 PM

Doreen grabs a mirror to look at herself

if saying the word penis will actually send ppl to hell then we're all in big trouble, I can however think of lots of other words that might qualify me though...

and me will try to stay out of this thread, before I get into trouble *sigh*
[Message Edited]

Don't worry. If they send all those people to hell, we'll have a hell of a good time there.

[Message Edited]

Hey MadIce, I was wondering, what did the persons post have to do with your post about quantum computing?

No, it is a personal choice, but one of the decisions we strongly recommend you take. It is a difficult decision, but we know we will see them again in paradise, if they do die. As for the advanceds in technology, we no longer have to make that choice.

No offense but it has always been clear to me that the pressure is on you to follow the beliefs of JW. So if that is your only option to get a blood transfusion because other methods have been tried and failed or shown to not work in a particular case of the patient what do you do?

Is it really a choice? Loose the family of people you love and care for in your church? To feel shunned?


I do not pretend to think that other religions do not have such 'rules' as to how to make a choice but even my friends do not have an answer for that. One in particular does not care what people think about her so her choice was easy.



As I have written before, the Bible seems to be interpreted in many different fashions. If you can not admit that others can not be just as passionate about how it 'should' be done and how (much like you) feel that they are right then there really isn't much to debate.


You will surround yourself with like minded people that never challenge ideas, interpretations, understandings or the experts.





How exactly is there to be spiritual growth without opposing opinions?

I do not say there is any true religion but those who allow individual thought and growth without 'nagging points' or 'mental games' are usually the best.


Now about Creation....

joetheblow: Nothing at all. In the other thread it was identical. That was a political thread. So, to me it was a clear case of religious spamming.

I like term. Religious spamming. Don't you?

R3fr: , such lies. It isn't a personal choice if you are punished for it. That would be like saying Armed Robbery is just a personal choice for the average US citizen. If a JW takes a blood transfusion they lose their peers and possibly family. The same has been done to people who are forced to go outside the church to report child molestation.

When someone is shunned by the Jehovah's Witnesses, the remaining JWs are *compelled* not to have contact, even with family. If they do, they can be shunned as well. This isn't an easy choice either when you are brainwashed. This is administration by isolation and fear. It is a classic example of cultish control; the main symptom of it, actually. Separate people, indoctrinate them, and then they must obey unquestioningly or face expulsion and loss of their friends and family. Shameful and sick. It prevents cultish religions from having light shed on their cultishness.

Rules like this only protect people who abuse power, and they are indicative of shallow beliefs that wouldn't stand up without them. I have no use for any belief that takes this much control to keep its sheep in line.

I'll take Religious Spamming for 15 !

R3fr:

P.S. I have linked the official website more than once, and I think it does as good a job at showing how frighteningly cultish the JW hierarchy is.

You said: "Thats not even a teaching of ours, the punishing in afterlife. "

That's funny, too. You can't be a part of the Kingdom of God if you aren't a Jehovah's Witness, and if you do anything that goes against the teachings, you are shunned... meaning you are no longer a Jehovah's Witness. If that isn't punishment in the afterlife, what is? , gah.



[Message Edited]

Heavenly Hash

Humans have always looked to higher power in order explain something we cannot. Ergo, creation is not a mtter of fact, it is merely a matter of belief. You may or may not believe there is a higher power but no one can really say how or why the we are all here. We do not like the idea of us not being in control. We think if we are not in control we are weak and helpless. Like I said, creation is cannot be proved as fact but is a belief. But tell me, don't we create babies, machines, clones? So I do believe in creation, though not like the Bible says. You have to understand that Genesis was written by people without knowlegde of the "theory" of evolution. So he is going to explain creation in terms that could be comprehended by him and the people around him. The human race and the rest of the world was not made in seven days. The theory of evolution is pretty much concrete but not all scientists have accepted it as cold, hard fact.

Sure, the JW sect is a cult....but little more than any other stylized religion.

I recall the dummy-spitting over RCs and contraception.....just as 'bad'.

The difference, however with JW is that the adult's decision regarding transfusions 'CAN' kill their child 'un-necessarily' [quaint, that], and 'should' be classified as criminal negligence at least, and murder at best.

But then every cult has its foibles....cool-aide, etc....that 'attract' the disparate and desperate or like-minded followers, ultimately making THEIR Religion superior to others through personal selection [or up-bringing], nothing more.

More often than not, it ends up as the blue-eyes Vs the brown-eyes...or the whites Vs the blacks...or the Catholics Vs the Protestants...or the Fascists Vs the Jews [and everyone else]...ad nauseum.

Any group, faction, religion or cult, call it what you will, that ostracises, punishes or actually hurts or allows hurt of ANY individual in its teachings/doctrine is JUST PLAIN WRONG and has lost its direction AND relevance.

I'd rather be a member of HUMANITY than any of the Religious cults out there....and I mean EVERY SINGLE ONE of them...